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February 22, 2018

Big Picture: Liberty students call for change

“Proud of our students’ peaceful demonstration today,” Liberty High School Principal Sam Cox tweeted Wednesday.

Liberty students gathered outside the building to take a stand against school violence.

Mr. Cox added: “Inspired by @maddy_humphries speech! #EnoughIsEnough #NeverAgain #BeTheChange #EndGunViolence.”

Since the Feb. 14 murders of 17 students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., teenagers across the nation have joined the campaign for change.
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nonewtaxes · March 1, 2018 at 9:22 am
It is far more likely that some of these kids will see the bad end of a car rather than a gun. Maybe they should keep their eyes on the road and their hands upon the wheel.

Evidently public education continues to fail. It's great that the kids want to voice their opinion but it'd be even greater if it was an informed opinion.

BJ · February 25, 2018 at 9:05 am
Cameron_Jones - Oh go find a corner and play with your gun, somewhere where the rest of us that want to work on REAL solutions don't have to watch.

Blaine Johnson
BJ · February 25, 2018 at 9:01 am
You go young people!! "March for Your Lives"!! The times they are a changin' and it time for outdated ideas are leaving the world stage. I am so impressed by the poise and maturity that is being expressed and show by these kids, it give me great hope in for country. Thanks to Trump and his "whitopia" mind think, the dragon has awoken. Enough is enough.

Blaine Johnson
Jim Griffin · February 24, 2018 at 2:00 pm
I stand by those words. They are consistent. As would any good advocate, I change them to suit the opponent. My approach to you is somewhat different because you are not an anonymous coward, and I have respect for your military service. NNT? Anonymous.

Can you stand by your words? Is it truly your position that any person with the cash is constitutionally entitled to purchase any firearm or weapon they desire?

If so, I think it absurd and wildly out of step with our community, not to mention the law.

If not, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. If we can agree that not everyone (age, criminal record, mental illness, etc.) should be able to purchase any firearm (there are restrictions between outright illegal and highly restricted, like Class 3, such as a suppressor), then why absurdly claim that tinkering with who can buy which firearms is an all-out assault on the Second Amendment?

I know why. Pure politics and there is no one deeper into the game than you, Mr. Jones. As they say in Africa, when the elephants fight, the grass suffers.

I was remarking upon reading another thread here than citizen observer and BJ and I have reached something of a consensus on this issue, and ours is a diverse wide range of points of view, making my POV anything but the leftist talking points you claim. The Governor of Florida now wants change, as does POTUS. And so on.

You are bent out of shape about it, and your motives are clear. You want power. You want to win some of the elections you are losing. You want people to change their view of you. You want bare minimum for your group to seize control of the local Republican committee.

Not my thing, Democrat or Republican, but by all accounts on these pages it's quite the high school debate tournament over there. It's even funny you thought my consistent remarks are somehow inconsistent.

You didn't really want to drop the mic, did you, Mr. Jones? You like the feel of it.
Cameron_Jones · February 24, 2018 at 1:24 pm
Heh,… no one more thing before I drop the mic Mr. Griffin.

I found this on an other post on FN.

In your own words…

Jim Griffin @

“NNT: I own a number of firearms and enjoy them. We rely upon them for safety. I teach our son about firearms. Your supposition that I want to make it nearly impossible to enjoy the exercise of the Second Amendment is demonstrably false. We enjoy handguns, shotguns, rifles, target shooting and more on a regular basis.
You want to make debates personal, but behind a mask of anonymity. Yours is another one-way personal attack without regard for the issues.
Yes, we can always kill one another. Agreed. Nonetheless, reasonable people seek reasonable regulations. Even POTUS today announced support for just what I am predicting here: Tougher verification, no bump stocks, tougher age limits for some weapons.
Standing unreasonably against regulation is not support for the Second Amendment. It is destructive of the Second Amendment and invites further attack on the good within it.”

Seems like you are the one making the debate personal, and I'm not hiding behind "a mask of anonymity".

You say, “…we can always kill one another. Agreed. Nonetheless, reasonable people seek reasonable regulations.” So I guess those of us who believe in the Constitution are unreasonable in your book?

We already have “reasonable regulation” of firearms themselves.

An AR15 or SKS is functionally no different than a Remington Model 742, a Ruger 10/22, or any number of other semi-automatic “sporting” firearms; should we ban them? What if the next killer uses a bolt action rifle, should we ban them? And the next killer uses a muzzleloader, should we ban them?

Your arguments are disingenuous and you change them to suit the person you are attacking.
Jim Griffin · February 24, 2018 at 1:14 pm
Mr. Jones:

I am not giving up the rights I exercise and there's no one here seeking to take them. In fact, we reasonably regulate firearms now. We should continue our current policies, which match regulation with reason in pursuit of balance. You're the one complaining while you struggle in vain to color me as out of step with this fine community.

You resort to false personal claims that mine is "left wing rhetoric" and label me. No wonder you are in the minority fighting for control of the local Republican party, itself the minority party in Virginia. You are an extremist on an unpopular fringe and so you decry your lost fellow Americans.

Taint me as you will, my views are consistent with conservatives and Republicans nationwide. I did not vote for HRC, I vote for Webert, Garrett and others, but if you're suggesting my views are better represented by others I will take a second look. Certainly this county's Republicans have decidedly rejected buying whatever it is you're selling with your friends at

If you were confident about your views you would not resort to bombast, knowing the Supreme Court and a Republican government have your back, that they protect your unique view of the US Constitution. Your desperate pleas belie that view, knowing that precedent and the president disagree, reasonable regulation regularly ruled constitutional and now POTUS advocating new rules.

There are good reasons we have reasonable regulations on firearms and those regulations are upheld by the Supreme Court repeatedly, just as we reasonably regulate the rights to free speech, freedom of association and more.

Shame on you for your hypocrisy of alternately claiming everyone's on your side and everyone's immoral and losing their minds. The average person knows better.
Cameron_Jones · February 24, 2018 at 12:52 pm
Mr. Griffin,

You are free to give up all the rights you want, but not to surrender mine involuntarily, that sir is what makes America great.

You can spout all the left wing rhetoric you wish, and invoke all the Progressive talking points you want, I stand unequivocally with the Constitution of the United States, the greatest political document ever written.

Although you may attract more Progressive commenters to bash me here on FN, I believe the vast majority of Americans are with me...

(insert Mic drop here)

Jim Griffin · February 24, 2018 at 11:54 am
I detect no one seeking to strip us of the Second Amendment rights we regularly exercise save for those like you who absurdly oppose reasonable regulation supported by Americans.

Imagine the Fourth Amendment's ban on searches without warrants were imposed literally on law enforcement. Consider an unbridled First Amendment without libel, slander or copyright "infringements" (among many others). And so on. All such efforts reasonably regulate the fundamental right in question; Only reasonable regulation passes the test of a civilized society and preserves the rights we hold dear.

America's freedom is rooted in the spirit and the minds of its people, which includes our global alliances. In fact, we are free not because of a person with a gun, but in spite of those who abuse what they think are their rights and the rest of us properly view as a threat. You exploit this cycle.

We disarmed Germans and the Japanese among others with good reason. We did not strip them of liberty in the process of taking their weapons. To the contrary, we liberated them and saved the world from their might makes right mentality.

The hypocrisy of your comments is rich: You claim the majority supports your cause but decry "that our society has lost it's collective moral foundation" and people just don't understand.

Which is it, Mr. Jones? Can both possibly be true? That America has collectively lost its way but supports your POV? Look at the recent electoral results nationwide. Contemplate the upcoming elections. Midterms are what democracy looks like, just like the string of flipping elections over the past year.
Cameron_Jones · February 24, 2018 at 11:13 am
Mr. Griffin,

You are entitled to your minority opinions; and indeed they are.
Polling conducted this last week shows Americans across the board, overwhelmingly reject more; infringement on their 2nd Amendment rights, and that polling was conducted by the left wing media by the way, not NRA.

The right to bear arms is the only thing that keeps America free, and the left knows it; so do you. That is why they work so hard to take that right away from us.
Jim Griffin · February 24, 2018 at 11:00 am
CJ: Society hasn't lost its collective moral foundation. In a democracy, society is the collective moral foundation. You are simply at odds with the majority, which is of course your right, and theirs.

Our kids are telling us they'd prefer we focus less on the Second Amendment and more on other constitutional elements, like their right to an education, their 1A right to free speech, freedom of association, and freedom of religion, to name just a few.

As regards that which makes America unique among the nations of world, our gun policies are not near the top of the list, unless you're counting those elements that make others question our now abandoned leadership of the world community. Our arts and culture as championed by the First Amendment is our signature trait and our biggest net positive in the balance of trade and ideas. The Saudis have oil, we have ideas, research, education and entertainment.

I favor gun rights and exercise my 2A freedoms, but I don't conflate them with our purpose, or the reason we left England, which I remember every time I watch misguided "conservatives" persecute Muslim Americans.
Cameron_Jones · February 24, 2018 at 10:46 am
While I understand the students grief and frustration at the violence in our schools, their anger is counter productive and misdirected.

The Florida mass murderer, as with virtually every other mass murderer since Columbine with the exception of the Las Vegas killer which we still no nothing about (why?), this boy was a known entity. He had nothing to do with the NRA, and the rifle he used was just a tool, just as the automobile is a tool of a drunk driver; the object did not commit the crime, the person did. If we could snap our collective fingers and eliminate all guns from America it would not stop anyone who is hell bent on mass murder.

The sad fact of today's America is that our society has lost it's collective moral foundation. Sadly, families don't talk like they used to, and fewer and fewer of our children grow up with a morality rooted in religion. We used to have a lot more firearms per capita and a lot less violence in our nation. And along the way, the Left has made sure that our children no longer know the "why" behind the Bill of Rights, particularly the 2nd Amendment.

The younger generations are likely to succumb to the false promise of security through larger more intrusive government, because they do not understand the 2nd Amendment is the only right that stands between freedom and totalitarian government.

It is the one thing that makes America unique among the nations of the world.

Before the students of America decide to relinquish their rights to the left, perhaps they should study the history of our nation to find out why the right to bear arms was second only to the freedom of speech.
citizen observer · February 23, 2018 at 9:42 am
Wow, that is cool JG! First I have heard of it and thanks to your wife. I didn't realize how many people have been killed or injured by distracted drivers until I saw the CDC report.

Dave, that is great to hear schools are promoting distracted driver awareness. Many tragedies are preventable. Hopefully the schools are also pushing the "If you see something, say something" mantra. If they see or hear something about someone threatening a shooting, they have somewhere to report it.
Look what smoke detectors did to drop fire deaths by providing an early warning.
Jim Griffin · February 22, 2018 at 9:01 pm
Agreed with CO. We are proud supporters of the Milt Olin Foundation:

My wife, Stacie, is on the board of directors. Very supportive of action and attention drawn to this cause.
Davebenjamin · February 22, 2018 at 6:53 pm
Dear observer,
Most schools have SAAD groups that focus on teen driving issues. So there is plenty of time and resource invested into that area.
citizen observer · February 22, 2018 at 12:25 pm
Can't blame the students for being worried and upset. However it is amazing how what the media focuses on affects peoples emotions and concerns.

How come the media isn't focusing on things like distracted drivers causing fatalities? Innocent people have as much chance of being injured or killed in an accident caused by a distracted driver, as they are a shooting by a whacko. For some reason it gets almost no media coverage.

From the CDC: Distracted Driving. Each day in the United States, approximately 9 people are killed and more than 1,000 injured in crashes that are reported to involve a distracted driver. 

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