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March 23, 2020 · OPINION

More corporate bailouts? Say: “Not this time!”

Stock Photo
By Kathy Kadilak
The Plains

While many of our family, friends and neighbors are denied paid sick time because their employer is either too small (fewer than 50 employees) or, yes, too large (think Walmart, CVS, Citibank, Exxon) and wondering where their next meal will come from, President Trump and our congressional representatives are seriously considering bailouts for the airline, hotel and cruise industries. The bailout would cost taxpayers over $50 billion.

These are the same organizations that impose Draconian rules on customers to pinch every penny out of us that they can. The airlines are infamous for gouging us on ticket prices, baggage fees and other arbitrary expenses while providing service that is sometimes uncomfortable and unpredictable.

Remember when our government bailed out Wall Street and the banks in 2008? They received a combined total of $45 billion in taxpayer dollars, while they bankrupted Americans. Did folks who couldn’t pay their mortgages get a bailout? No, they got an eviction notice and foreclosure.

There should be no bailouts for the airline and travel industry. Let the CEOs and other corporate officials in those companies do the hard work of surviving this pandemic like the rest of us must. No matter what your political affiliation, I hope you will join me in calling our representatives in Congress to say, “Not this time!”
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DawnRBickerstaff · March 31, 2020 at 9:16 am
nonewtaxes · March 29, 2020 at 11:51 pm
I do hear that baba obama takes credit for restarting the economy. If'n it was bush's bail out shouldn't bush get the credit?

Now I read you say trump is president and should take responsibility for all things going on and not blame the former obama yet all obama did for 6 years was blame bush.

how do you support all local politicians? cant you only vote for just one? At best, you can only support half the politicians.

little jimmy aint run me off. It's just more productive to talk with a mud puddle.
Sonny Day · March 28, 2020 at 10:22 pm
Haha, now I have a multiple personality disorder for speaking against Obama which had Little Jimmy calling me a liar to divert from the truth!

I did have some bar buddies show me on their phone Little Jimmy's posts belittling them while proudly stating he was friends of the editor who had no problem with him running people out. It caused some consternation as one of the people at the bar advertises on this great site. It all worked out okay.

I got onto this site a little while ago after a buddy told me Little Jimmy was back making bad misinformation posts about the Fauquier Hospital ER's handling of a shooting victim, even though the hospital followed protocol. It was causing people to push for closing the ER, which is a valuable thing to have nearby if you are having a medical emergency.

I don't care who says what, I just want all politicians held to the same standards. Sorry that labels me as a redneck in your world, but so be it.
Rusty Wheel · March 28, 2020 at 7:19 pm
sonny day lies, pile of screen names .. not run off but returned with new names

was 'concerned citizen' & nonewtaxes & Traverse & JohnnyD said peeps should get banned for spreading liberal bs or something stupid like that

dont always agree with jg but makes sense more than not always decent bout it these rednecks are the ones that make all look bad
Jim Griffin · March 28, 2020 at 1:29 pm
SD:

Get a life. Calling people names, making up stories, trying to boycott a news site to silence comments with which you merely disagree. It's juvenile.

Here's another made-up story: You falsely wrote that I once said I was speaking for the editor. Another lie.

Against the tiny few bigoted cries of boycotting the news site because it publishes my comments, I related that I know and have shared a meal with those who run it, consider them friends and am sure they would never censor someone for having a different POV. Indeed, journalists like contrasting views, even thrive on them. It is in many ways the whole point of journalism, and I was a journalist for many years.

Lincoln put it best: If two people think the same way about anything we don't need one of them.

Neither are my views off the end of some chart -- I support almost every local politician, voting for and supporting many a Republican.

I am what some refer to as an accidental moderate:

http://www.paulgraham.com/mod.html

Decidedly not middle of the road, but many different views. So, for example, I am critical of taxpayer-funded conservation easements, support 2A gun rights ala Justice Scalia, generally oppose workplace legislation and have a distaste for big govt. Did not vote for HRC. Am not a Democrat. We have a good relationship with all our neighbors and have lived here for over a decade and a half. We give time and resources to the community.

Still, you play a silly game of lump and dump, trying to own a lib -- so you make one to try to own. Nikki Haley, for one, is highly critical of this game, as she warned high school students a few years ago, which reminds us how sophomoric is a boycott to ban a commenter.

Applying it to me is silly, even libelous and defamatory.

Which is why you need to make up something -- that I said I spoke for the editor -- to have anything to criticize. Another lie. It simply isn't true -- I repped only that he is fine with me commenting as I do.

He would never let me speak for him -- we're a pair of journalists -- nor say I did. It's his site. He would remove such a post and me as a user. As I said then, he is fine with me expressing my opinion in the comment section. I suspect he'd happily publish something I wrote and sent to him just like he does for so very many others.

And, hey, if an inherited law enacted by your predecessor and with which you are now "involved" could be made yours, we'd be calling health care Trumpcare, right?

Rave on, Sonny Day. Your lies include saying you're done with it when you're never done with the name calling, false claims, made up information. It's your pattern, like that fish I keep catching in my pond. Fortunately for the fish and you, I practice catch and release. Off you go!
Sonny Day · March 28, 2020 at 12:01 pm
Oh, Little Jimmy- you should be proud you continue to live up to your reputation of using hot air to distract and divert without dealing with issues presented to you. I won't even get into how several years ago you proudly ran people off of this site that disagreed with your views, and claimed the editor was your buddy and supported you doing so. Good thing he dismissed your claims before all the talk in local pubs of boycotting advertisers became a reality. This is a great news source and commenters are surely allowed to vent their opinions, but when one falsely attributes that he is speaking for the editor that quickly changes a lot of things.

And calling someone a liar when you can't say anything else is yet another reputation you continue to live up to. There were actually 2 bailout bills, not just 1 by Bush as you claim.

As I said before the $700B Bush TARP (in which he included both Presidential candidates, McCain and Obama, in the creation discussions) was signed on October 3, 2008. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA), nicknamed the Recovery Act, was a stimulus package enacted by the 111th U.S. Congress and signed into law by President Barack Obama in February 2009.

The approximate cost of the ARRA package was estimated to be $787 billion at the time of passage, later revised to $831 billion between 2009 and 2019. Some reports say that the $350B remaining from the TARP was added to it making the actual cost about $1.1T.

And we did accept $400M from the Iranian Shah for military equipment months before he was overthrown by the radical Muslims and they invaded our embassy and took hostages. That changed everything. There were reasons 5 Presidential administrations prior to Obama, involving both political parties, refused to pay them back.

The Clinton administration had agreed in 2000 to pay that $400 million to Americans who had won lawsuits against Iran in US courts.These families and individuals had sued the Islamic Republic for damages after the deaths of loved ones or for being the victims themselves of Iran-backed kidnappings or terrorist attacks. At the time, US officials announced the money would come from the Iran fund. Unfortunately it was later reported it came from US taxpayers instead.

It is unlikely that U.S. would ultimately have been obligated to hand over a single dollar or deutschmark to the Iranians. For one thing, the U.S. had its own counterclaims over Iran’s many violations — which, in total, exceeded the amount supposedly “owed” to Iran. Obama, unilaterally dismissed the stipulation held by the previous administrations that the United States wouldn’t release funds until other court judgments held against Iran for its terrorist acts on American citizens were all resolved.

Iranian press reports have quoted senior Iranian defense officials describing the cash as a ransom payment. The Iranian foreign ministry didn’t respond to a request for comment. It is against US policy to make hostage payments, but for some reason 4 hostages were released when the pallets of cash were airlifted into Iran.

The cash Obama used was paid from the US Treasury Judgment Fund, which pays “court judgments and Justice Department compromise settlements of actual or imminent lawsuits against the government.”  It created a loophole that allowed Obama to make the payment without Congressional approval, but that is not what the fund is for. Imagine what will happen if Trump uses something like it to fund his Wall without approval, but Obama has already set the precedent with no recourse. The Obama administration even tried to hide it until it was discovered and reported by the Wall Street Journal.

Oh, and I proudly voted for Obama in the 2008 election. I thought like so many he was going to be the next FDR and put people to work fixing this country. However it didn't take me long to figure out he was not much more than smoke and mirrors with hidden agendas. As I have previously stated he did so much with very little press coverage or recourse like our current president gets. Time to hold all politicians to the same standards.

So it's a chilly day again. Everyone will be anticipating your hot air response to keep them warm. Personally I am done with this and going to join the ranks of so many that just ignore you and your hot air smoke screens.


Jim Griffin · March 26, 2020 at 1:59 pm
SD:

Nothing but ad hominem attack and failure to take responsibility for your lying.

"The only thing I can do is slam them for using a pseudonymous hood"?

You lied when you called it Obama's bailout; It was Bush's. You lied when you placed the number at $850b; Obama got less than half that. You lied when you falsely claimed he "sent pallets of cash without Congressional approval"; It was theirs in the first place.

You are a repeated, demonstrable liar. Your relative anonymity gives you a perch for sniping and lying, but it is by no means the point. There are fine people here who disguise their identity, but you're not one of them.

You are not a middle-of-the-roader. You are a Republican partisan who unfortunately disgraces an otherwise decent group of people. Shame that.
Sonny Day · March 26, 2020 at 1:45 pm
Thank you so much Mr. Griffin for living up to your reputation of spinning around in circles and spewing hot air. Everyone knows you are not a middle of the roader like the rest of us. Easy to figure as you never contradict any liberal posts.

Oh, and yes Bush signed the TARP on October 3, 2008, about 1 month before the election and 3 months before he left the office. Not a whole lot of time to get much done with it. I know people that work for Baltimore City Housing. They were supposed to get millions from the Obama monies added to it in 2009, to rebuild ghettos. They received nothing and the Obama administration spewed out nonsense to them about "shovel ready jobs" being to complicated and they needed the money elsewhere. I already gave you a list of where the money went instead of helping the poor and putting people to work fixing our infrastructure.

Too bad the pubs are closed, as I would be rewarded a beer for getting to you! Everyone knows when the only thing you can do is slam them for using a pseudonymous hood, they got to you. How do you know my name is not Sonny Day? For that matter how do we know you are really Jim Griffin? Who cares other than it gives you something to further your attempted distraction from the real issues being discussed.

We'll, thank you for the hot air! It has made a good day to let this go and do some gardening. Cheers!
Jim Griffin · March 26, 2020 at 9:40 am
Your ad hominem spins are offensive. There's nothing liberal or conservative about facts save for your liberal use of falsehoods.

I did address Obama and TARP: He inherited the program from Bush, who signed and enacted the legislation that you now falsely attribute to Obama. Neither do I criticize TARP or Bush -- the cash infusion was needed. Bailouts are never clean.

You have a problem, SD. It's a partisan problem. You want to assign partisan blame and make personal that which is not, all the more ironic and asymmetrical because you refuse to stand accountable for your own false words, hiding under a pseudonymous hood.

These are facts: Obama inherited $350b, not the $850b you falsely claim; It was Bush money inherited, not an Obama plan; Obama made equity infusions; It was Iranian money in the first place, not US funds that needed appropriation.

Here's another fact: My views range from conservative to liberal, as do the views of most people. I do not see the world through your partisan lens. I simply call 'em as I see 'em. You had more than three strikes here, so you're out.
Sonny Day · March 26, 2020 at 8:28 am
JG, I do not refute the dollar amounts. How come you say nothing about Obama being involved with TARP? Both he and McCain were involved as Presidential candidates when it was passed a month before the election in 2008. You make it sound like Bush had all the money for years before Obama showed up. You also ignore the fact that 75% of the money then went to Obama supporters. Everyone has become accustomed to your liberal spinning of facts, but thanks for your hot air on a chilly day!
Sonny Day · March 26, 2020 at 8:03 am
Trump is an egotistical, arrogant, spoiled child. No doubt. He wouldn't be President if Hillary hadn't corrupted the DNC.

I am not blaming anything he does on Obama. I am just saying it is time we hold all politicians to the same standards, regardless of political affiliation. We allowed the smooth talking Obama to do a lot of things with no accountability or recourse. Just wait and see what happens when Trump invites some guys pimpin out underage girls to the White House for dinner. Oh darn, that's right, Obama already did that with no recourse.

This country is now only focused on one person in the White House, while basically ignoring the 535 folks on Capitol Hill. That's were the problem lies. How about the 4 senators that heard about the potential economic impact from this virus on some top secret committee they were on, and sold their stocks before they dropped. 3 Republicans and 1 Democrat, so both parties are involved. Time for term limits.
Mark House · March 25, 2020 at 11:29 pm
I blame Trump's parents for raising such a self-brat.
Silii · March 25, 2020 at 9:36 pm
Well, it does no good to keep bringing up Obama.That was years ago. Past tense. Trump has been president for over 3 years. So, everything now is on his watch not some president from the past. It's a poor and weak excuse to keep blaming a past president for Trump's total failures and disgusting personality.
Jim Griffin · March 25, 2020 at 8:53 pm
To my points, not a one of which you refuted in any way:

1. Obama seeks remaining $350 billion in bailout funds (January 2009, post-election)

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-financial-bailout/obama-seeks-remaining-350-billion-in-bailout-funds-idUSN1235783420090112

You do not refute that what you mistakenly call Obama's $850b bailout was enacted while Bush was president and only $350b was left over.

2. Boeing CEO says no equity deal:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/boeing-stock-calhoun-bailout-coronavirus-dilution-aerospace-51585074419

You do not address the issues of equity versus giveaway. At all. The Obama money was not a giveaway but equity deals not for slush projects but specifically intended to prop up the lending system. Some of the money came back.

3. Mnuchin Discusses $850 Billion Stimulus and Checks to Americans

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-17/mnuchin-to-ask-congress-for-850-billion-virus-stimulus-package

The $850b bailout is the current one, not the Obama number. This is where you mistakenly put an additional $500b on Obama's shoulders.

4. Iran money was theirs, Trump story bogus, Reuters fact check:

https://bit.ly/3dupWyO

The money was not from the US Treasury. It was from frozen Iranian bank accounts and payments to the US for arms purchases not delivered. Even your source concurs, says Obama gave Iran access to its money, not ours.

Bottom-line: Bailouts and cash grabs like these suck. Lots of waste and misspending, but we have hindsight they did not and we can at least tell the truth instead of smearing with lies as you did.
Sonny Day · March 25, 2020 at 8:23 pm
Such a shame we have to do the homework for college professors.

1)2) From Real Clear Politics:
Rich Democrat donors also got payback. The farcical “green” energy company Solyndra defaulted on more than half a billion dollars of our money, while Obama mega-donor George Kaiser finagled his interest ahead of ours. Other beneficiaries of Obama’s largesse for dubious deals include Larry Page and Sergey Brin for Tesla Motors, NRG Solar owners Warren Buffet and Steve Cohen, and Siga Tech owner Ronald Pearlman. All told, more than 75 percent of stimulus grants and money for such “businesses” found their way to big Obama supporters.

Even that crony capitalist of the century, Al Gore, got his snout in the trough. His investment in Fisker Automotive scored a $528 million loan guarantee. Can you imagine the risks you could take if you were given $528 million that you were not personally on the hook for? Of course all these businesses are tanking or have tanked already.

3) How Obama Secretly Gave Iran Access To Billions Of Dollars — And Enabled Terrorism

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-iran-terrorism/

Jim Griffin · March 25, 2020 at 7:17 pm
1. Obama started with $350 billion -- not $850b -- and the $350b he got was leftover from the $700b bailout approved at the end of Bush's presidency. Your $850b number is accurate for *this* bailout.

2. The Obama money was a financial bailout for banks, lenders (like GMAC), car companies, etc. It was needed to stabilize the financial system and was requested by Bush.

3. The pallets of cash were Iran's in the first place, so he didn't need approval. Most of it was unfrozen funds, the remainder restitution for armaments purchased but never delivered.

4. Let's hope these "bailouts" are equity investments like the Bush/Obama bailout, but I am hearing they are not -- GM, TARP funds, etc., were equity investments that were returned to the US Treasury. Let's hope the same is true of Boeing -- give the taxpayers value for the cash invested. (Boeing CEO now says no.)
Sonny Day · March 25, 2020 at 10:22 am
"Trump has been one of the worst offenders ever."

So how come no mention of Obama? The taxpayers funded an $850B bailout for his "shovel ready jobs" to clean up ghettos and repair our infrastructure. Instead he gave it to his supporters on Wall St., political buddies, and countries all over the world. He even sent pallets of cash without Congressional approval to a country chanting "death to America" in their streets.

Not a word was said and I don't recall Kathy Kadilak writing anything about it. The liberal hypocrisy has become stunning.
Silii · March 24, 2020 at 8:10 pm
Yes, we are a socialist country. Big government doles out money to corporations, farmers, etc. at the expense of taxpayers. Trump has been one of the worst offenders ever. Next, it isn't so much the bailout concept as it is what the corporations do with them. Corporations should not be allowed to use the money for stock buy backs to line the deep pockets of corporate executives and stockholders. Corporations should not be allowed to increase salaries and compensation/retirement/separation packages for corporate executives while they continue to downsize or not rehire and grow. This is what they have done in the past thereby rendering bailouts useless for workers. It's time to stop shifting the wealth in this country to the upper 5% at the expense of the rest of us.
Hitlery Clinton · March 24, 2020 at 8:04 am
Goebbelsthenes shows his true colors, again.
Demosthenes · March 23, 2020 at 8:20 pm
FalconDad,

My apologies. Picking on a neighbor for their spelling is pretty pointless. I am afraid that the stress of our current situation is starting to weigh on me.

Anyway, you are right in your idea that we should bail out airlines. Not only do we want to take care of all of the workers connected to the airlines, but when this all finally goes away we will all want to see airlines still in operation.
Jerome Fields · March 23, 2020 at 5:56 pm
"Punish the disvhonest businesses who hire tgem."

SaveFauquier so you think that Trump and Company needs to be punished for ALL the illegals for ALL the years that he hired them, and discarded them when they wanted paid, SHOULD BE HELD accountable. Well, finally you said something that make sense!
FalconDad · March 23, 2020 at 3:51 pm
Demosthenes, yeah you’re correct. I type too fast and hope auto correct will not go awry, so I will let your comments slide.
Demosthenes · March 23, 2020 at 3:37 pm
FalconDad, grades came out and you just got an F in spelling. It should be "your family" and generally people spell it "would" rather than "wold."

Savefauquiercounty2019, you said we are a capitalist country. Remember that in a capitalist country the government does NOT take an active role in bankrolling businesses. In capitalism the free market dictates which companies live and die. But actually I'm not saying that we shouldn't save some key industries like the airlines, I'm just saying you ought to embrace your inner socialism that beckons you to call out for so much government influence in the economy.
FalconDad · March 23, 2020 at 3:10 pm
Kathy, grades came out and you just got an “F” in economics. If you or you’re family members were part of these industries or their suppliers you wold stop begging FauquierNow to publish your crap.
Savefauquiercounty2019 · March 23, 2020 at 2:09 pm
Employees need to return to work. Businesses that are struggling need help. They will rehire Americans. Bring the jobs back into USA. Go back to hiring Americans first. No Americans should be financially ruined. Stop giving Aid to foreign countriex who have horrific leaders. It has always been unconstitutional. The tax payers should never have to support illegals. We hire workers sith visas only. Punish the disvhonest businesses who hire tgem. China should be held responsible for manufacturing viruses. Muhan institute should be shut down. Biological weapons are just as bad as nuclear bombs. This virus was unleashed /genocide. We are a capitalist country and we need to support companies who will keep Americans working. Support all businesses as much as you can. In turn, your community will stay strong.
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